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Industry Focus: Financials edition host Michael Douglass and Fool.com contributor Matt Frankel attending at third-quarter 2017 coffer balance and altercate industry trends, as able-bodied as highlights from anniversary bank. In addition, we altercate some of the best important metrics investors should use to appraise coffer stocks, and we allotment our claimed favorites.

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A abounding archetype follows the video.

This video was recorded on Oct. 23, 2017.

Michael Douglass: Welcome to Industry Focus, the podcast that dives into a altered area of the banal bazaar every day. It's Monday, Oct. 23, and we're talking big coffer balance and advance today. I'm your host, Michael Douglass, and I'm abutting by Matt Frankel, who's currently at the Money20/20 appointment in Las Vegas. Matt, you attending a little annoyed today. Continued weekend in Vegas?

Matt Frankel: I'm activity to accusation that on the time change. Let's go with that.

Douglass: Sure, that seems like a reasonable affair to claim. Afore we get started, I basic to accord a quick shout-out to our admirers and a acknowledgment for alert through Pitch Week. A lot of bodies wrote in absent to apprentice added about Mastercard, Square, and Berkshire, proving that Financials isn't absolutely as arid as a lot of bodies accept to assume.

Before we get into things, I basic to highlight something. We heard 15 banal pitches aftermost week. Maybe you absent an episode, or maybe you aloof didn't get them all accounting down. E-mail us at industryfocus@fool.com, and we'll appropriately accelerate you the account of all 15 stocks that we discussed and their tickers. Again, that's industryfocus@fool.com.

With that, let's allocution about big coffer earnings. That's, for those who are befitting account at home, Morgan Stanley (NYSE:MS) and Goldman Sachs (NYSE:GS), Wells Fargo (NYSE:WFC) and U.S. Bancorp (NYSE:USB), and Bank of America (NYSE:BAC), Citigroup (NYSE:C) and JPMorgan (NYSE:JPM). Generally speaking, best anybody did well, except for Wells Fargo, but we'll get into that. Let's alpha with some generalities, and afresh we can get into some specifics about each. One of the aboriginal things that absolutely I saw was, trading acquirement was a lot lower appealing abundant beyond the board.

Frankel: Yeah, that tends to appear in low-volatility environments like this. The prices are affective about a lot less, so bodies tend to barter a lot less. That's affectionate of a abrogating thing, with animation actuality at celebrated lows appropriate now.

Douglass: Sure. I assumption this is the analysis of stocks accomplishing so able-bodied so far this year. On the cast ancillary of that, a acceptable affair for the banks, I noticed a lot of amount cuts. They're abbreviation branches. They're additionally acid staff. And that's allowance them bigger ascendancy their expenses.

Frankel: Definitely. In Coffer of America's case, they bankrupt 113 or 114 branches this accomplished division alone. This is why you see revenues up across the board, but balance are up alike more, and the big acumen for that is, costs are activity down.

Douglass: Absolutely. On the cast side, one added issue. It's a slight concern. You're seeing some bumps in delinquencies and defaults, decidedly acclaim agenda charge-offs. That's commodity we'll appetite to adviser activity forward.

Frankel: Yeah. You're not anywhere abreast the crisis area aloof yet. But a lot of experts are adage that acclaim agenda debt is at a almanac aerial level, alike from afore the cyberbanking crisis, and this is commodity to accumulate an eye on, that bodies are maybe affairs a little too abundant and we can see an uptick in defaults.

Douglass: Right. Let's about-face to specifics about the banks. Of course, Matt, you're a talker, I'm a anchorperson -- we're activity to charge to get through this appealing bound aloof so we don't bog bottomward the complete episode. Let's aloof booty a minute to attending at anniversary of these big banks, and how they got to their win or, in Wells Fargo's case, loss, compared to analysts' expectations. Starting with Morgan Stanley, wealth-management business seems to be accomplishing absolutely well. They accept $2.3 abundance in assets beneath management. Lots of befalling there in cross-selling added articles to wealth-management clients. Think mortgages and added kinds of loans to added enhance the bank's profitability. I anticipate they accept a lot of absolutely absorbing befalling from here.

Frankel: They do. Both big advance banks accept a lot of big opportunities, abnormally as they alpha to annex out into added acceptable cyberbanking areas.

Douglass: One of the absorbing trends that you'll see with banks appropriate now is -- there is a lot of this -- you accept your acceptable advance banks. That's Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs. And they're affectionate of bent into a lot of things that accept not frequently been in their purview. And you're seeing this in a lot of banks. There's this attack to cross-sell and be a one-stop boutique beyond the lath for bodies and businesses in altered stages. Certainly, with Goldman Sachs, they had a lot merger-and-acquisition fees. That's the added advance bank, by the way.

Frankel: Yeah, Goldman Sachs absolutely has the No. 1 bazaar allotment in mergers and acquisitions. And IPOs, for that matter.

Douglass: Right. It's interesting. They are absolutely absorption a lot of accomplishment on customer lending appropriate now, with their Marcus online lending platform. I don't apperceive about the blow of you, or you, Matt, but I get a lot of Marcus Loans advertisements on Facebook, so I'm absolutely hyper-aware of that accurate attack by them.

Frankel: And it's been acknowledged so far. They hit $1 billion in loans quicker than Lending Club or appealing abundant any of the added big players. And they accept a big advantage in that they accept bags of basic to lend. They don't accept to delay for investors to put up money. They can abound it as bound as possible.

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Douglass: And speaking of accepting lots of capital, the Fed austere them to accession their allotment abutting year. So that's acceptable account for Goldman Sachs shareholders as well.

Let's hop on over to the bartering banks. Wells Fargo -- that's activity to be the banderole here. Not a abundant division by absolutely aloof about any measure.

Frankel: Right. Like you said, acquirement was appealing abundant up beyond the lath except for Wells Fargo. Absorption margins were up beyond the lath except for Wells Fargo. Adeptness was up beyond the lath except for Wells Fargo. I could accumulate activity with that. But it was aloof all over the place. It was boxy to acquisition things to be blessed about in this division for Wells Fargo.

Douglass: In a lot of ways, Wells Fargo is still disturbing from the fake-accounts aspersion aftermost year and any cardinal of added investigations and negotiations with the federal government over practices of assorted sorts. This is a lot to dig into there, added than we can in this episode. But a lot of apropos for Wells Fargo. I anticipate that's reflected in almost poor banal performance.

Frankel: One thing to point out with Wells Fargo, if you don't mind, is a lot of the abrogating after-effects this division were additionally partly attributed to acknowledged costs. It's not aloof their business that's suffering. It's, they're actuality hit with all kinds of fees and fines, and there's absolutely no cogent if there's activity to be added at this point.

Douglass: Yeah. So a lot of ambiguity there appropriate now. Let's about-face to U.S. Bancorp.

Frankel: Sure. U.S. Bancorp is historically one of the best assisting banks in the country, abnormally for its size. And actually, for the accomplished few years, it's been Wells Fargo, U.S. Bancorp, and afresh anybody else. Now it's aloof U.S. Bancorp and everybody else. Their acknowledgment on equity, acknowledgment on assets, which we're activity to get into in a minute, is way aloft everybody else's. Same could be said for efficiency. Well, it's lower than anybody else's, but it's abundant better.

Douglass: Just beyond the board, aback you attending at the metrics, U.S. Bancorp looks like it's in a appealing abuse able spot. Let's about-face to the accepted banks. These are your acceptable banks that absolutely accept been complex in a lot of altered areas. They've had, if you will, their fingers in a lot of altered pies. Let's alpha with Coffer of America. Acceptable account for Coffer of America shareholders in that they've absolutely done a acceptable job of amount management. Their adeptness arrangement is now bottomward to aloof beneath 60%, which is a massive advance from the Coffer of America of the past.

Frankel: They're accepting added efficient, not aloof because they're abbreviation their concrete footprint. They're absolutely accomplishing a acceptable job of blame adaptable and online banking. Adaptable especially. A analysis drop costs the coffer commodity like one-tenth of what a drop in a annex costed. So the added bodies they can get to use their online tools, their peer-to-peer acquittal solutions and actuality like that that are really starting to booty off, the bigger off they'll be. And it's still a appealing baby allotment of their affairs that are actuality done through mobile.

Douglass: Yeah, so there's a lot of befalling to abide mitigating costs activity advanced with all these upfront investments they've fabricated in technology.

Frankel: Yeah. They've apparently done, in my opinion, the best job of the big banks in absolutely leveraging their online platform.

Douglass: Sure. Let's about-face over to Citigroup. With Citigroup, two important things to point out. Adeptness arrangement is bottomward to 56%, which is array of exceptional of in the old Citigroup. So that's absolutely acceptable news, to see that they're accomplishing a acceptable job of amount management. And on the cast side, acclaim cards are assuming added charge-offs. And that's, I anticipate again, commodity that we're activity to charge to watch affective forward.

Frankel: Yeah. Citigroup is the alone one of the big banks with a continued way to go afore their profitability is area it needs to be. They still accept a almost low return on disinterestedness for their shareholders.

Douglass: Yeah. And finally, JPMorgan. So one of the absorbing things about JPMorgan is, JP Morgan Chase, the Chase Sapphire Reserve agenda is admired amid acclaim agenda hackers. And management letters that it's assuredly starting to pay off for the bank. So this is a acclaim agenda with a lot of perks, and they're assuredly able to, they're alluring the array of bodies they appetite to with those perks, and afresh are able to accomplish money in added means off that acclaim card. So that's acceptable news.

Frankel: Yeah. Acclaim cards in accepted -- the Sapphire agenda was not actual assisting at first, because they were appealing abundant giving abroad a assurance on-bonus account about $1,000. So it took them a continued time afore that was recouped by the added business. But it looks like it's assuredly starting to pay off. A lot of bodies in the industry anticipation they were crazy for giving away, I anticipate it was 100,000 frequent-flyer afar at first, commodity like that.

Douglass: Something like that, yeah. So it's acceptable to see that alive out. And abundance administration is additionally advantageous off able-bodied for them, too, so that's acceptable news.

Frankel: Definitely. They're accomplishing a abundant job all around. There's absolutely annihilation abrogating to say about JPMorgan over the accomplished few years.

Douglass: Absolutely. Let's go aback now to the all-embracing sector. There are a few catalysts for banks affective advanced that investors should be acquainted of. Aboriginal off, interest-rate increases.

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Frankel: Yeah. Generally, aback absorption ante go up, the banks profit. They alarm it net absorption margin. The bank's accumulation allowance expands. That's the aberration amid what a coffer can accomplish on its loans and what it's advantageous for deposits and things like that. So as the Federal Reserve is accepted to access absorption ante at atomic a scattering of times over the abutting few years, this should additionally access coffer profits.

Douglass: Yeah. Their adeptness to abridged that bigger advance amid what they're advantageous for deposits and what they're accepting for loans will be, hopefully, a big disciplinarian for the bank's basal businesses in a higher-interest-rate environment. Secondly, let's additionally allocution about deregulation. This is commodity we've talked about in several Industry Focus: Financials episodes. Frankly, the cyberbanking area is actual absorbed in there actuality some deregulation so that they can acquisition altered means to advantage that money for bigger profitability.

Frankel: That's abnormally accurate in these big banks, already they're aloft that $50 billion asset threshold, which aggregate we've talked about is. Afresh the regulations aloof jump to addition level.

Douglass: Right. We'll talk added about how to anticipate about big banks in a minute. By that, what I beggarly is, unpacking some of those ratios we talked about and absolutely cerebration about how to assay a moat, and frankly, whether any of them is a acute advance today.

So afore we hop into coffer metrics, I aloof appetite to point out, this is activity to be a actual high-level attending at them. If you absolutely appetite to accept how to advance in banks, we accept a abundant commodity that break bottomward how to accept a coffer allotment by piece. Aback I took over our cyberbanking advantage in 2014, it was my Bible, and absolutely still is today. Accelerate us an email at industryfocus@fool.com, and I will be blessed to allotment it with you. Again, that's industryfocus@fool.com.

Let's talk about advance in big banks. I anticipate the aboriginal affair we should allocution about is, at their core, banks demography money as deposits and afresh lending that money out as loans. So you appetite to know, frankly, whether they're acceptable at lending that money to bodies who aren't activity to absence on the loan, which would appulse their advantage actual negatively. One of the means you can admeasurement that is with the net charge-off-to-loan ratio, which is what allotment of loans are so behind and so absurd that the coffer thinks it won't get its money back. So lower is, of course, better. Added thoughts on that, Matt?

Frankel: To chase up on what you aloof said, this is why Citigroup and Coffer of America comatose afterwards the cyberbanking crisis, while U.S. Bancorp never alike had a division area they were in the red. Their defaults, they ticked up, but it was never to the point area they were accident money. This is what you were talking about with, they're abundant bigger at addition out who they should accommodate money to.

Douglass: And actually, you've fabricated a point that I appetite to draw out a little bit more, which is, aback the abridgement tanks, those numbers are activity to increase. There are activity to be added bodies who become delinquent, whether you're a abundant lender or a absolutely bad lender. But one of the things to accumulate in apperception is, attending at anniversary lender in allegory to the others. If you accept one that has a abundant lower net charge-off-to-loan arrangement adjoin another, that's a acceptable assurance for that company. And that's aloof commodity to accumulate in mind. The complete numbers matter, but a ascent or biconcave advance will affect all the boats. So you appetite to accumulate that in apperception and assay them to anniversary other.

Let's allocution about amount administration a little bit.

Frankel: Sure. This is area a metric alleged the adeptness arrangement comes into play. It's absolutely absolutely accessible to calculate. Booty the bank's non-interest amount and bisect by the complete acquirement it generates. It's basically how abundant a coffer is advantageous in adjustment to accomplish its revenue. Lower is better. Generally, 60% or so is what you're attractive for for a big bank. About bisected of the banks we talked about are lower than that; about bisected of them are college than that. But that's affectionate of the criterion for a big bank.

Douglass: Right. And U.S. Bancorp, to accord it a bark out, has the everyman adeptness arrangement of that agglomeration at 54.3%.

Frankel: JPMorgan is absolutely in a abutting second, and surprisingly, Citigroup is up there, too.

Douglass: Right, it's interesting. Again, this is not what you would historically expect, accustomed the history of the cyberbanking industry. But it's a new day, and new things are happening.

Let's allocution about coffer advantage as well. That's acknowledgment on assets and acknowledgment on equity. Attractive at both of those, that's how you can accept how able-bodied the coffer takes that hopefully low acclaim accident and makes money off it.

Frankel: The two benchmarks you appetite to attending at are 1% acknowledgment on assets and a 10% acknowledgment on equity. Acknowledgment on assets is a admeasurement of how able-bodied a coffer takes all of the money it has and uses that to accomplish added money. Acknowledgment on disinterestedness is how able-bodied it's application the money shareholders accept invested to about-face a profit.

Douglass: Exactly. And let's additionally allocution a little bit about what happens if aggregate bad hits the fan. There are a ton of altered ratios that you can use to try to stress-test a coffer a little bit. Of course, the banks absolutely go through accent tests with the Federal Reserve. But one that's appealing frequently acclimated is the coffer 1 accepted basic ratio. It's appear on by every big bank, and it basically measures how abundant ache they can booty afore absolutely bad things alpha happening. So the college the ratio, the better.

Frankel: Right. At this time, all of the banks are able-bodied aloft the authoritative threshold. I anticipate best of them are apparently bifold the authoritative beginning at this point. This aloof affectionate of tells you, beneath a worst-case scenario, which, I anticipate the stress-test worst-case book is commodity that's alike worse than the cyberbanking crisis was, commodity like 10% unemployment, things like that, and how able-bodied a coffer would authority up afore it would alpha accident money or charge a bailout like they did during the cyberbanking crisis. Again, this is addition metric you assay with added banks and booty with a atom of alkali at this point, because aggregate is activity well.

Banks accept absolutely recapitalized because regulations are high. This is addition affair to accumulate an eye on, if regulations get formed back. Appropriate now, it's absolutely attractive appealing acceptable beyond the board. I anticipate the accomplished basic arrangement is Morgan Stanley at this point, and Goldman Sachs. Both advance banks accept absolutely aerial capital. Amid the added banks, Citigroup decidedly is the top, with a 30% coffer 1 basic ratio.

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Douglass: Right. And of course, aback cerebration about anniversary of these metrics, the abutting catechism is, of course, OK, cool, that's what you're getting, but what are you advantageous for that? And there are a lot of altered appraisal metrics out there. The one that I adopt for banks is amount to actual book value. Book amount is about what the business' assets are worth. That includes abstract assets and goodwill, which, frankly, those are adamantine to value. So I tend to adopt actual book amount because it's, well, actual assets, so it's easier to get a complete appraisal for, and afresh amount over that basically gives you a faculty as to what that appraisal looks like -- again, in allegory to added banks.

Frankel: And this is a acceptable one to use in affiliation with the acknowledgment on assets, acknowledgment on equity, and adeptness arrangement we were talking about. You appetite to know how abundant you're advantageous for a bank, accustomed its profitability. For example, U.S. Coffer trades at by far, by far, by far the accomplished price-to-tangible book value. Aloof to affectionate of accord you a advertence after cogent you too much, activity too abundant into the numbers, they're about 3 times actual book amount appropriate now. For comparison, JPMorgan is a abroad additional at 1.8 times book value. The industry boilerplate is amid 1.3 and 1.5 times book value. So U.S. Coffer is by far the best assisting of the big banks, but you pay for it.

Douglass: Right. So that's one of the things you accept to counterbalance aback you're agreeable in an advance apriorism about these companies.

Let's about-face to cerebration about a moat. Aback you've got a big area like this, and a agglomeration of altered players that bluntly are a little bit inscrutable, how does an broker assay a moat for them, and absolutely amount out which one to advance in?

Frankel: That's a absolutely acceptable question. The moat, you can assay basically by commodity that differentiates the banks from the others and that should accumulate it activity no amount what the bazaar or the abridgement is doing. U.S. Bancorp is the accessible example, aloof because they're consistently profitable, have very few accommodation losses. The recent accent tests absolutely begin that U.S. Coffer would not alone survive, but they would accomplish money alike in an complete worst-case scenario. That's a appealing nice moat. That's a acceptable allowance of assurance to have, too.

Douglass: Yeah, absolutely. I tend to agree. I anticipate one of the added things to accumulate in apperception is management. Aback you go aback to a lot of these metrics that we've talked about, what they absolutely appear bottomward to basically is, how acute is administration at deploying capital, and how abundant accident are they demography on by accomplishing so? And the added that you can apprehend about management, apprehend what they say, apprehend how they allocution about their business, I anticipate the added you can accept a little bit, aback you amalgamate it with these metrics, what their acclaim accident looks like and how they anticipate about advance in the company.

Keep in mind, every coffer is activity to say they are a bourgeois lender that's absolutely accurate about how it lends out money. That's aloof array of par for the advance for them to affirmation that. The reality, though, is activity to be that aback you amalgamate these altered ratios with what administration is talking about and absolutely try to bigger accept how they do this and what accident they're demography on by accomplishing it.

Frankel: Definitely, aloof to see who's putting their money area their aperture is, I guess, is the best way to sum it up.

Douglass: Exactly. And one added time, as I mentioned earlier, my admired commodity on banks is accounting by Anand Chokkavelu, who's a CFA at fool.com. Drop us a note, industryfocus@fool.com, and I'll be blessed to accelerate you that article, which absolutely break bottomward how to anticipate about advance in banks.

Frankel: I absolutely abstruse a lot of what I apperceive about things from that article.

Douglass: Yes, me too. Let's go advanced and booty a footfall back. We've talked about big banks, we've talked about their news, we've talked about what's activity on, we've talked about how to assay them. Well, are there any that are absolutely account advance in today?

Frankel: As a accepted statement, I anticipate the abeyant catalysts we discussed are priced in at this point. Coffer stocks, a lot of them accept angled in the accomplished year or two, Bank of America actuality one. That's my claimed better banal holding, Coffer of America. But I don't apperceive I would buy added today at the accepted price.

I alone like Wells Fargo, if you accept a continued time anatomy to let the ball comedy out. They're still a appealing big-ticket coffer about to the industry, but not compared to what their business was admired at afore the aspersion started. So if they're acknowledged in convalescent from the aspersion over time, this current amount could attending appealing cheap.

And U.S. Coffer is consistently a acceptable abiding investment. You absolutely can't go amiss with that one at any point.

Douglass: It's expensive, and for a reason.

When I anticipate about Wells Fargo, my accepted affair is, I anticipate the key catechism that you charge to ask afore you accept to advance in Wells Fargo is, this coffer absolutely did able-bodied on a lot of metrics for a actual continued time, in allotment because they did an advancing cross-selling culture. Can they absorb that advancing culture? Can they in some way finer cross-sell their articles and grow their acquirement and their basal balance after these abrogating externalities that generally appear with that, which is, bodies aggravating to bluff the system, creating affected accounts, things like that?

If the acknowledgment to that is yes, afresh Wells Fargo is assuredly bargain compared to area it acclimated to be. It's still analytic priced by best coffer banal standards. But if you're anxious about that possibility, I anticipate Wells Fargo is a stay-away.

Personally, I don't accept abundant abstracts points, so I'm blockage on the sidelines. I absolutely don't own any of the big banks. I'm alone invested in a baby coffer appropriate now. But I'm activity to be befitting an eye decidedly on the turnaround at Coffer of America, because I anticipate that's a actual absorbing story.

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Listeners, that's it for this week's Financials show. Questions, comments, you can consistently ability us at industryfocus@fool.com. As always, bodies on the affairs may accept interests in the stocks they allocution about, and The Motley Fool may accept academic recommendations for or against, so don't buy or advertise stocks based alone on what you hear. This appearance is produced by Austin Morgan. Thanks to Matt Frankel for abutting us today. For Matt Frankel, I'm Michael Douglass. Thanks for listening, and Fool on!

Matthew Frankel owns shares of Coffer of America, Berkshire Hathaway (B shares), and Square. Michael Douglass owns shares of Berkshire Hathaway (B shares), Facebook, and Mastercard. The Motley Fool owns shares of and recommends Berkshire Hathaway (B shares), Facebook, and Mastercard. The Motley Fool owns shares of Square. The Motley Fool has a acknowledgment policy.

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